Is there a comma *after* a list with an Oxford comma? Why is violin tuning order the way it is? Therefore, we need a comma before and. It's arguable that there isn't an interruption at all. Commas are used to separate list items. @ElbyCloud You’re welcome. Sam tossed the ball and watched the dog chase it. Writing, grammar, and communication tips for your inbox. If you’ve ever heard someone arguing about serial commas or Oxford commas, this is what they were talking about. The Bakerloo Line runs between Harrow and Wealdstone, and Elephant and Castle. Incorrect: An eight-year-old boy, is coming to the party. Explanations of the Oxford comma often use examples that either consist of the list alone or a sentence that ends in a list, e.g.:. Include the comma in parentheses because pin-striped, skinny, and mean-looking is a parenthetical expression, and the trailing comma matches the leading comma (after man and before pin-striped). A lot of people have strong feelings about putting a comma before and in a list. It’s cold outside, and I can’t find my coat. Your example isn't one, but the associated commentary is of some interest: This rule is difficult to apply; it is frequently hard to decide whether a single word, such as however, or a brief phrase, is or is not parenthetic. In the second case, that comma is omitted. Always place a comma before or when it begins an independent clause, but if it begins a dependent clause, don’t. It only takes a minute to sign up. Omit the comma in parentheses because He [verb phrase] [noun] doesn't require a comma between the verb phrase and the noun. Want to learn about other ways to use a comma? The dog is well trained and good natured. You usually put a comma before and when it’s connecting two independent clauses. The train will stop at Harrow, Pinner, Watford, and Bushey. The sentence above contains two independent clauses (highlighted in green), so it requires a comma before and. The dog is young, well trained and good natured. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Don’t switch back and forth in the same document between using the Oxford comma and not using it. Why do aircraft with turboprop engine have black painted anti-icing system? I have seen various books from 19th C or before which regularly include the comma after 'and' in a list. Creating Two-Dimensional String Array for Plane Seats. Why do some companies choose to file for bankruptcy if it has cash to pay off its immediate debts? If the interruption to the flow of the sentence is but slight, the writer may safely omit the commas. (Isn’t there always?) (By the way, you can tell they’re independent clauses because each one could stand on its own as a complete sentence.). How can I model a decorative serving tray? But whether the interruption be slight or considerable, he must never omit one comma and leave the other. That means it’s a dependent clause, so we should not use a comma before and. English Language & Usage Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for linguists, etymologists, and serious English language enthusiasts. YA Fiction Series: Color-coded magic system and protagonist kills brother at high school. You have been successfully subscribed to the Grammarly blog. Exactly why this particular quirk of comma usage stirs such passions is hard to say; it’s just one of those things. You usually put a comma before and when it’s connecting two independent clauses. Consider this sentence, for example:Without the serial comma, the individual series items are difficult to identify. The final comma before the "and" is called the serial comma. In a series (or list) of three or more items, you can use a comma before or, but this is a preference, not a rule. and you're asking whether the comma I've placed in parentheses should be present when the noun phrase is a list that employs the Oxford comma. Sam and Sarah take excellent care of their pets. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Just be consistent. Why is Max Verstappen's last name transliterated with a Ф ('F') instead of a В ('V')? The Bakerloo Line runs between Harrow and Wealdstone and Elephant and Castle. The first clause, Sam tossed the ball could stand on its own as a complete sentence, which means it’s an independent clause. Thank you. There’s no single rule that applies to all situations. Vocational rather than academic, "Grammar for Grown-ups" is packed with real-life examples and keeps you engaged with a wealth of great quotations from Homer the Greek to Homer the Simpson. It’s almost always optional to put a comma before and in a list.. Comma Before And in Lists. The sentence is correct with or without the comma before and. When you have two independent clauses joined together by and, most style guides say that it’s OK to leave the comma out as long as the two independent clauses are very short and closely connected. What is the two-item list equivalent of the Oxford comma? The emblem is an amalgamation of the British and Irish flags, the Stars and Stripes, and the Hammer and Sickle. Why does my model produce too good to be true output? There is no considerable interruption between the phrases my sister and came home in your example. Well, forget proper. You should not use a comma before and if you’re only mentioning two qualities. If possible, please provide a reliable source. : red, white, and blue In the first case, the “serial comma” or “Oxford comma” is used after the penultimate item in the list. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. In your example, the noun phrase "my mom, my dad, and my sister" is the subject and "came" is the verb. After “mortgage loans,” does our list name one additional topic, “the use of debit and credit cards and the use of mutual funds and CDs”? What is unclear from these answers is whether there should be a comma after the last list item, when using an Oxford comma:. Did Apple introduce a white list of hard drives (for MacBook Pro A1278)? By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. You, do not separate the subject from its verb with a comma. To my parents, Ayn Rand, and God. This man, pin-striped, skinny, and mean-looking (,) was lurking behind the gate. They shouldn't be separated by a comma. Grammarly catches misplaced commas and other writing issues. I left the house with my friend, Simon and Terry. The closest that Strunk and White come to this is the discussion on parenthetical expressions (rule 3). Don’t use a comma before and when one of the clauses it’s connecting is a dependent clause. I cannot understand how to properly fry seafood. @tchrist But your mother, or your sister, do. Tone vs. Why it's news that SOFIA found water when it's already been found? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. site design / logo © 2020 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. Rule #8: If You Use a Serial Comma, Use it Consistently. Its use is purely written style and optional. A lot of people have strong feelings about putting a comma before and in a list. Why do we have undocumented and unsupported functions in SQL Server? For a more relevant reference, consider Guide to Using Commas by Penn State Berks Writing Center: 2 Don’t use a comma to separate the subject from the verb. Can I use my work photos on my personal website? The proper place for the comma is before the conjunction. Does the scrum master also estimate user stories? There’s a long-running debate over whether it’s proper to include that last comma in a list. Thanks for contributing an answer to English Language & Usage Stack Exchange! Whether or not you put a comma before and depends on how you’re using and.There’s no single rule that applies to all situations. Check out our general guide to comma usage. This page explains when to use commas in lists, has lots of examples, and includes an interactive exercise. Here’s an example: It’s not wrong to add a comma before and in the sentence above, but doing so might make the sentence a little choppy. Whether the Oxford comma is used in the noun phrase is irrelevant. Straight talking and methodical, "Smashing Grammar" (Our Grammar Book, 2019), Commas after interjections (yes, no, indeed), Commas before conjunctions (and, or, but). Since most academic papers will be written in either MLA or APA style, students should use the serial comma. Elementary inhomogeneous inequality for three non-negative reals. By the way, this rule only applies to lists of three or more items. But wait! Nevertheless, your question specifically asks about the lists containing the Oxford comma: If you consider that list to be a unit, the answer will depend on the place that unit holds within the sentence. Why does the manual for inner tube say max psi is 4.5? It’s almost always optional to put a comma before and in a list. The dog is young, well trained, and good natured. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Or like this: We need bread, milk, cheese and eggs. Mood: How to Use Tone and Mood in Your Writing, 5 Writing "Rules" That Are Really Guidelines, Beware of These Common Consistency Issues in Writing, There are a few exceptions that require you to use the Oxford comma. I left the house with my friend, Simon, and Terry. Such an old thread, but this was quite helpful to me three years later. A list of items can be punctuated like this: We need bread, milk, cheese, and eggs. With three list items, use a comma between the list items and before the 'and' (or whatever conjunction) if it's your local convention. red, white, and blue To my parents, Ayn Rand, and God. The comma makes things clearer, and a recent lawsuit proves that. I left the house with the twins, Simon, and Terry. Using a comma before the last item in a list is known as the Oxford Comma, sometimes the Serial Comma.It is used before conjunctions in a list like this with three or more items. Printing: will a font always give exactly the same result, regardless of how it's printed? Both the Modern Language Association and the American Psychological Association require it. My friend, Simon, joined the circus as a clown. What is unclear from these answers is whether there should be a comma after the last list item, when using an Oxford comma: Is there a comma after a list with an Oxford comma? Here are some examples: He came, saw, and conquered (,) Rome. People often get muddled about whether to place a comma before conjunctions like and, so, because, and or. The word and is a conjunction, and when a conjunction joins two independent clauses, you should use a comma with it. Whether or not you put a comma before and depends on how you’re using and. I’m glad this post was useful. Comma after the noun of the Oxford comma? Explanations of the Oxford comma often use examples that either consist of the list alone or a sentence that ends in a list, e.g. The dog is well trained, and good natured. Do you disagree with something on this page. You have presented the start of a sentence in the form. Correct: An eight-year-old boy is coming to the party. Remember that any type of word can considered an item on a list. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service.